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 Sixth Edition General Discussion Thread (Power weapons etc) 
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Post Sixth Edition General Discussion Thread (Power weapons etc)
What do people think of these new power weapon rules then?

Are they all balanced or is one a bit stronger than the rest?

I quite like the look of the Power Maul- more saves will be taken, but you should get a lot more wounds with it.

On a tangent, I also note that the Lightning Claw/Power Fist combo now works at full efficiency, due to the way that Specialist Weapon works.

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Last edited by Holdenstein on Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Thu Jul 05, 2012 8:41 am
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Post Re: Power Weapons
not sure about Power Mauls, yes higher S with no speed/duel weild problems, but the reduction of AP (or introduction of AP rather) could make them a problem

It does mean they will be better than Krak grenades in anti-armour attacks, but SM will be saving 2/3 of all wounds... lets check the mathhammer for a S4 AP3 vs S6 AP4 (build for anti-Marine, improvise for anything else)

1/2 wound, 1 (all) wounds kill = 50%
5/6 wound, 1/3 wounds kill = 28%

conclusion = Power Mauls are rubbish vs Power Armour, but gread against anything in 4+ saves, someone else do the maths for high Toughness MCs etc, the +2 S might counter the 2+ or 3+ saves...

Wil have to check the faqs as I've modeled my Terminator Librarian with a sort of stave/maul... do I want AP3 with no S bonus or can I get a Psychic power to do something like that for me?

still, I tend to run fun lists, so the total maths doesn't concern me too much unless I'm really hobbling my chances of doing ok...

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Thu Jul 05, 2012 9:46 am
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Post Re: Power Weapons
Obviously power axes favour lof-Initiative models more than power swords now. I'll have to find a way to remodel all the power swords in my IG army to axes now. ;)

For higher-I models, such as SM characters this seems like a true choice now. I guess it depends on the army you'll end up facing - swords might be better against some, axes or mauls agains others.

On thing I really like is the introduction of the power lance. I already have a Wolf Guard Battle Leader with a power spear and I'm looking forwart to using it if only for the 'cool' factor. :)


Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:57 am
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Post Re: Power Weapons
It's the change I'm most unhappy about...

... well.... the wound allocation is also too clunky IMO, but that'll get easier with time and, I suspect, will see a lot of people building simpler units anyway which will speed things along.

Terminators/equivalent were great already and are now even better -- especially as lots of them have FnP in some way too.

Had hoped we might see an end to every champion holding a powerfist, and I think we might see less of them in non 2+ save units... but, once again, every terminator will be tooled up with fists of some description.

BORING !

Whilst I understand that chaplains got a lot better with the changes to fearless, I think it's pretty crappy that their weapons are so awful now. A most uncalled for and needed change.

.. guess they really want to sell that "hugs a lot" chaplain eh ?

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Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:59 am
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Post Re: Power Weapons
So you're still on the fence about it?

I don't think that they're quite so badly balanced as that- the changes to wound allocation do mean that removal before you strike is more likely- plus with 4 attacks on the charge with re-rolls there's a pretty good chance of getting a precision strike and removing a special weapon, as long as they're in b2b. In any case I think that we'll be seeing a lot of challenges too- I would certainly fancy that Chaplain's chances against an ork character (not Ghazzy though!).

The one thing I do worry about slightly is whether Power weapons getting slightly worse and fists staying the same means that the power weapons will be slightly over costed, which will lead to more fists (if such a thing is possible).

The real killer is that the versatility of fists-You can take out vehicles and infantry with them and that's always going to favour them in tournament lists.

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Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:24 am
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Post Re: Power Weapons
it does make their wargear choices more useful now, when I was building my current work in progress force it seemed pretty pointless to give the Chaplain any other CC weapon than his standard kit, just a plasma pistol for the fun of it, now having to pay for a 'real' power weapon is valid, even if you don't get much choice

not sure about the 'rules' regarding modeling different power weapons on your models, my IG sarges will def be kitted up differently if you can just chop and change for no points/restrictions

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Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:26 am
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Post Re: Power Weapons
deadbolt wrote:

not sure about the 'rules' regarding modelling different power weapons on your models, my IG sarges will def be kitted up differently if you can just chop and change for no points/restrictions


I think that tournaments might ask you to write down the variety of weapon to avoid situations where assholes pulling out different sarges depending on what they are facing. Deathwing- get the Power axes out. Orks- power mauls. You know it will happen if its not ruled against.

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Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:36 am
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Post Re: Power Weapons
Be interesting to see how the first gen 6th codices deal with the various power weapon options....?

Thing to remember is the "look out sir!" rule makes it very hard to remove special weapons and the like.

2nd game of 6th we had we realised/discovered Nob bikerz are all characters... so can share/split the pain around with gay abandon, whilst meganobz... aren't characters...?


.. ookkaayy..

2+ for Ic is OTT IMO, keeps them too safe, but given the prevalence of powerfists then it's understandable.

Challenges I'm torn over.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/po ... 59779.page

makes me want to scurry back to the rulebook .

Bit unsure of this. I do it's ridiculous how good this has made guard blob squads, especially if they have a commissar. Especially against MCs. Assaulted by a 'thirster.. just throw 1 serg. per assault phase at it and tie it up for ages.

.. doesn't seem quite right to me.

Got some issues about the deployment as well.

need to check if it's player or game turn, but there's a line about how if a player ever has no models left on the table he loses automatically.

.. which seems very harsh on demons for example, who suffer already from having to survive at great odds against the whole army already.

... makes armies like air cavalry elysians pointless as well yes ?

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Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:18 pm
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Post Re: Power Weapons
Yeah,

The Ork Nob character thing- I'm not sure it will make it past the first FAQ update. You've got to assume that the Paladin one is intentional though.

Quote:
Challenges I'm torn over.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/po ... 59779.page

makes me want to scurry back to the rulebook .

Bit unsure of this. I do it's ridiculous how good this has made guard blob squads, especially if they have a commissar. Especially against MCs. Assaulted by a 'thirster.. just throw 1 serg. per assault phase at it and tie it up for ages.


It's not quite as bad as it first looks though- Firstly, and most importantly, the points values are about equal (unless there are commissars and special/heavy weapons in there in which case the blob is definitely more) so it shouldn't be a pushover. Plus if you fail your lead test- and you can- you're probably done, the Blood Thirster will usually be able to choose where he wants to fight and has the option of Vector Striking instead, and they've got to roll Fear if they want to charge him. And a second charge into the squad- of just about anything will clear them up very quickly.

It's on the extreme end, but I'm not sure that it's all that unintended.

EDIT: Oh yeah, some of those excess wounds might just go on the squad too. Not that it makes that much difference to a blob squad, as long as the characters are near the back. Interesting- I could see this one being FAQed either way...

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Last edited by Holdenstein on Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:49 pm
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Post Re: Power Weapons
dakkadakka 17 page thread on Power Weapons... yep, that's why I don't post there

Will have to read the challenge thing a little more carefully, it certainly looks like like it's 1 on 1 with no overflow, but it is risky to expect an IG squad to not run from a Bloodthirster, even with Commissars and lots of Sgts...

also, random shooting of equal ld values... a Commissar could end up executing the sgt fighting the Bloodthirster if he survives and they need to take a moral check for another reason!

Look Out Sir - doesn't this only apply to characters, so Heavy/Special weapons don't benefit? just squad leader characters and other character/IC as listed in the back of the rulebook? Nob Bikers - a game design team member must really like them to sneak that one in...


(change the thread name to "new 6th edition rules, power weapons etc..."?)

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Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:33 pm
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Post Re: Power Weapons plus other 6th ed rules...
Played my first 6th edition game today, mostly positive thoughts!

Snap shooting adds a huge new layer of dynamism to the game, makes assaults less of a sure thing. Plus it's great for Orks as the difference between 5+ and 6+ to hit is pretty negligible. It's great to be able to trundle forward, lay down ordnance, and keep snap firing with all my big shootas as I go. Really like it.

Also really enjoyed the nerf of power weapons down to AP3, makes Meganobs a much better choice against many enemies, before they used to get mauled.

The new wound allocation rules are pretty interesting, not sure how I feel about that yet. It seems sort of game-able and makes it maybe not to your advantage to attack an enemy from multiple angles, especially with shooting?

We put an archaeotech device on the board and activated it, only to turn out that it was a psycheneuin hive and there were no psykers on the board. Oh well!

Oh, and challenges are neat. Sanguinor challenged my Warboss to a duel and then got his face bashed in by a power klaw over two turns, so that was pretty sweet. Seems odd that you can challenge Greater Daemons and stuff though and then they have no option to refuse (if they don't want to bail on the combat anyway). Doesn't make a lot of sense, why wouldn't they just... kill everyone?

Allies are also great, our Chaos Marine player allied in a Keeper of Secrets and some Chaos Daemons Daemonettes AKA the Ones That Aren't Fucking Awful, and that was really cool.

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Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:57 pm
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Post Re: Sixth Edition General Discussion Thread (Power weapons e
Had another game last night. Relic and short edge deployment type, which is totally new, works and was fun. We forgot to roll for night fighting in the first turn and got thoroughly confused about vehicle and transport moving, but the rules galloped along at a fair old lick. I’m pretty sure that unless you play two armies with mixed saves in every single unit (Space Wolves I’m looking at you) then they play a little faster than the 5th edition rule set.

Precision shots is a fun little mechanic, and it's pretty easy to get in the habit of rolling a couple of different coloured dice for the sergeant each time, and it can eventually take a special weapon out.

I came up against an evil deathstar last night: 5 Lightning Claws, Pedro Kantor and a chaplain in a Land raider crusader. The lightning claws get 5 attacks on the charge, re-roll hits and wounds. We might see a few more of this type of thing soon as the storm shield begins to drop away, as well as shooty terminators.

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Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:38 pm
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Post Re: Sixth Edition General Discussion Thread (Power weapons e
I'm in the process of remodelling my Space Wolves for the new edition and I must admit that the new handling of power weapons has presented me with genuine choice. I find it really hard to decide whether to give individual models power swords, axes or mauls (or frost blades or axes).


Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:51 pm
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Post Re: Sixth Edition General Discussion Thread (Power weapons e
Is it just power weapons that come in different flavours now, or are force weapons effected too? Is there a difference between a force sword, force axe, and force staff now?

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Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:03 pm
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Post Re: Sixth Edition General Discussion Thread (Power weapons e
Yes, there is. The three types you just listed are different weapons now, basically the same as corresponding power weapons, but with the "Force" quality added.


Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:25 pm
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Post Re: Sixth Edition General Discussion Thread (Power weapons e
Just got my rulebook today... am I missing something about power axes? Why would you ever take a power axe over a power fist? Both strike at Initiative 1, but the fist gives x2 Strength over +1 Strength for the axe. Axe seems a bit... terrible by comparison?

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Tue Sep 04, 2012 10:35 pm
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Post Re: Sixth Edition General Discussion Thread (Power weapons e
Axe can be used with an additional combat weapon and is cheaper. Also certain models can have a power weapon but not a fist, eg Guard Sargeants.

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Wed Sep 05, 2012 5:02 am
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